Satoko Fujii Interview July 2019

By Michael Pronko

Satoko Fujii is one of the most vibrant, creative pianists in jazz today. Together with her husband, trumpeter and creative partner, Natsuki Tamura, she has developed a fan base throughout Japan, and an even bigger base in Europe and North America. Her deeply improvisational approach to creating never-heard-before music is startling at times, and always unique and engaging. She provokes by exploring and brings listeners along on the journey.After living in Berlin and touring Europe for several years, she returned to Japan just before her ‘kanreki,’ or 60th year, a special age which is especially important in Japan. She celebrated by releasing 12 CDs over the year with different configurations of musicians, running from solo to a large big band. It was a fitting tribute to the power of her music.

She has been making her own style of music for many years, but recently, fans and critics have started to catch up with her. In the 67th annual Downbeat critics poll in 2019, she popped up in four categories: big band, arranger, composer and piano. She took time to talk about her life and music over ice tea in Tokyo this July. It was easy to see how her creativity extends to interviews as well

In the most recent downbeat magazine poll, you are getting recognition for your work.

And not just in one category, but in four categories. Of course, I appreciate that and I am so honored, but at the same time I know there are a bunch of great musicians who are not listed there. So, you know, I'm happy but at the same time I know this is not everything.

But Downbeat including different kinds of players still seems like a sign of opening up.

Yeah, like in piano, I can see Myra Melford and Carla Bley and Maria Schneider. So, it's like a great big camera.Japan has opened up, too, don't you feel? You mean audience? I think so, but talking about jazz publications…They don’t change. Because they don't go to any concert. They just sit in auditoriums and get CDs from record companies and that's all the information they have. It's sad.

Do you feel as you’re getting recognition, becoming a bit famous?

Not really. In some other city in Japan, outside Tokyo, I'm not known at all. Nobody knows me. I have been playing this kind of music for more than 25 years now. But nobody hears any of my music. Probably Japan is the hardest place for me. If I go to Europe and America or Canada, it's much easier.

Is that because of the way people know about music here or because people in Europe and the east coast of America are more jazz oriented?

I think that it's pretty much because of jazz publications. Japanese jazz magazines always look at mainstream stuff, and they are not interested in introducing other stuff. So, I think that I'm not so successful doing that kind of stuff in Japan.

Did you feel you were busier when you lived in Berlin?

Not in Berlin, but in Europe. Yeah. And still now I can get some offer from Europe or from America, but no offer ever in Japan.

That's frustrating.

It is. Japan is the toughest country in some ways. Musicians cannot get any money. Often there are no paid gigs and no guarantee. We just play for the door money. And even in America there are several places that pay. Musicians in Japan are having very difficult times. Many times, I get email from abroad from musicians who would like to come to Japan. And sometimes I help set things up, if they can cover travel and accommodation. But when they get here, they were so surprised how musicians can survive in this country.

So, the feeling you had when you played in Europe was different? How long did you live there? Four years.What did you feel being there? In a totally different environment?

Musically, I actually found many, many interesting new ways to express myself. And I think at first when we moved there, we went to many jazz clubs in Berlin and they were like the same music. They don't play any melody, just quiet noise the whole night. That was typical Berlin music and of course there is some mainstream jazz there. Before the show when they warm up proper, wow good chops, you know. But when they start playing that doesn't come out ever. To tell the truth, I didn't like that. Sometimes I wanted to hear some melody, rhythm or strong notes, but the whole night so quiet, it's too much. You can hear the audience’s stomach noise.That's pretty quiet.But that's typical Berlin. At first I didn't like that, but I started getting some idea from out of it. So, I think it means something for me to be there, to get something.

When you came back to Japan, did you feel energized again, musically, creatively?

You know my husband and I have lived in America and in Japan, in Berlin, and we feel like, pretty much about the same. We cannot say this is the best city. There are some good things or bad things. We enjoyed living in Europe, living in Japan and living in America and sometimes we just get mixed up. When we are on the road we feel like, “Where are we now?”

You are always recording a lot of CDs. More than most people, I think?

Maybe. Yeah.

So, when you're getting ready to make a new CD, do you think of it as a CD? I mean, do you plan to do eight songs related to this or do you think you’re going to make music and then fit it together later?

It just really depends. I mean, when I made one CD with my big band, it took 15 years. I started making one big tone at first. Even with short songs, there is a big theme and sometimes it's just one big suite. So, in that way, it's like one big work. And sometimes for example on my latest solo CD, I didn't play the keyboard much. It’s mostly inside on the piano strings. And that, I got ideas that I play more noises, not the usual piano sounds. So, in that case, you know, I had kind of a theme to make one CD. So, it really depends.

At other times, it seems like you're working together with specific musicians.

That's not the theme exactly, but it's the musicians that connects things. Yeah that's like the band sound.So, you want the sound of that band this year, in this place? I think because of the lineup of band mates, there already is a music there. When I form a band, I feel like, okay, this person and this person would be interesting because it’s like making a society. People are very different musically and in their personality, and I hear the music in an interesting way when they are working together. I like that. So, I try to keep all the different bands alive.

So, the people and their sound comes first? Or do you think of sound first, so you need to find this person, this person, and this person to create that sound?

It depends. I do both. Sometimes I make the compositions first. Then I think about the line-up. And sometimes I play with some people and I want to play more with them.

It seems you love working with all these different people. I mean, every CD and every show, it's obvious you love being on stage with these musicians.

Yeah right, I do like all the people. And because I play with a big band in different places, it’s a lot of people. The big band in Tokyo has 15 people, Nagoya’s has 15, and Kobe another 15. That’s 45. I feel like they're all very different but at the same time we all share the same kind of value. That's the most important thing. I cannot make music with people that do not share the same kind of musical values.

What kind of values do you share with them?

I would like to play with someone who has a very open idea about music, who can accept anything. They can enjoy any kind of music and respect other people and are not narrow. While they make music, they use their ears. They are not trying to make something in a box with only that style.

So, when you play with musicians, you're always looking for that kind of ability to interact and just be spontaneous?

I would like to hear their voice. There are some people who can play like famous jazz musicians. But I am not interested in that kind of person. I would like to hear their individual voice strongly.You always get put into the category of jazz, but even that category is like a box.

Do you like that word “jazz”? Maybe no other term fits.

For a long time, I was not happy to be called a jazz musician because when I said I play jazz, someone always told me, that's not jazz. Especially in some jazz clubs, some people who say they love jazz complain. Of course, I have a background in jazz but at the same time I don't care whether I play jazz or not. Whatever, I play my music. When I hear my music, I think obviously, it's jazz, because it's not rock, and it's not classical music. And as you said, there is no other term that fits. So, I think probably my music is jazz.

So now you accept that?

Yeah, I give up.

It seems like you always have this deep feeling about creating, about making something new.

I just like to make something that I myself can be excited about. Even now that’s the most important thing for me. I don't want to be boring with my music. For that, I have to make the music very alive. Even if we make a mistake, if it’s still very alive, it’s fresh and exciting. That's more important.

For your shows, how much do you plan? How much do you not plan? With, say, a smaller group like eight people or nine people, do you give them a little instruction or do you give them a lot of instruction?

That really depends on the situation. The show you heard in the New Year, we didn't have rehearsals, we only had a small discussion before the show. I brought in some very simple written parts, a little structure or direction. They are all great improvisers, so I just wanted them to improvise to develop the music.

It's just like instructions. Do you save those or do you throw them out?

Some of them I keep, especially if I know it was interesting. I think this might work, sometimes there is no success of course. Some musicians stick with their philosophy that improvisation should be completely spontaneous, so they don't like instructions before playing.

But your directions are not very demanding or specific, are they?

Usually, it’s very simple instructions. Like, from left to right, time goes like this. Very quiet pianissimo, then speed up, and gradually at the end, crescendo, so very loud. Or, here is heavy, not fast, and then that’s it. With that, we can make music.

But for a big band you have to write down more, right?

It works there, too, but it's more difficult, because more people means more ideas. It's more difficult to make one shape. With the big band, I use mostly classical notation. And now with all songs, I use numbers, I mean signs, so I can improvise with those bands. Everyone knows the numbers, one, two, three, four, five. They are notated for things like a simple line, or some rhythmic element, so I can hold up my hand and we go there.

And on the other side, your recent solo CDs have you working inside the piano? How do you feel when you're using the piano in a different way?

In Japan, not many people play inside the piano. I am one of very rare piano players who does. But in Europe, there are a bunch. In America not so many, but compared to Japan, there are more. In Europe, some people only play inside the piano. Sophie Agnel, who I played with, does keyboards and inside playing both. Her inside playing is so good both ways.

But I think it's such a unique way of approaching the instrument and of thinking about the instrument.

But it’s not new actually. John Cage, you know started that around 70 years ago. It's not new but still people are not used to it. We can make beautiful songs that way, so why not? And I don't break the piano. I made the CD playing inside the piano because I wanted to make music that no one had heard before.

In your mind, does the idea come first, or the sound or the feeling?

My grandmother lost her hearing when she was like 82 or 83 and we communicated by writing. She told me after she lost her hearing, she started hearing beautiful music in her ears. I was very curious. I asked her, “What’s the song like? Can you sing it?” But she was not a musician, but I'm still so interested in what she heard. And I wanted to try making the music that she heard.

When you are working, or maybe not working, do you usually think in sound or do you think in ideas? How does that process work?

I don’t know. Inside my head, I never know. Sometimes sound comes but still, I'm surprised when I hear it played. I get the picture, then I write it down and when my bandmates play it, I have fun to hear how people treat the music. So, it's more like an experiment. It’s not like I have very strong ideas so you should play like this. I am not like that.

That’s the element of surprise for you?

Some professional arrangers, they hear everything ahead. That doesn't happen to me. So, sometimes it's very risky because I need to have a rehearsal to make sure it works, or not. But somehow it works, so I should be relaxed. Last month I had a recording session in New York City with my big band. I brought some music with the idea, the theme that I got is based on Hannya Shingyo, the Heart Sutra. So, it's very Zen. I found a very interesting Japanese-style drummer, not traditional taiko drumming, who was very exciting, very creative. I got some inspiration and I started looking at more Buddhist ideas. And I wanted to look at elementary particles, like with Einstein. Buddha said it was all space, even if it has weight. Like a wave, existence is more like a phenomenon. So, I spent ten minutes on the internet, and I got that kind of inspiration.

But have you done other things that were influenced by Japanese culture?

I never analyze it like that. Because I am Japanese, and I live in Japan, of course I get some influence from Japanese themes, but at the same time I think we are people, we are the same somehow. And I don't like having borders.

What's a typical creative working day for you? Do you have a schedule or do you just create when you create?

Well, I'm very typical Japanese actually in that regard. For a long time from my school age 35 years ago now, I always make notes on how long I practice, what I practice, from what time to what time, and it's like, you know, I don't know what you call it. It's not a diary it's more like a record. And I now have 20 notebooks.

That's a lot.

Yeah. I write down everything. If I'm not on the road and do not have particular things I have to do at home, I like to start composing very fast every day. So, after breakfast, I start making a piece. I spend maybe fifteen minutes, because this is a good amount of time. For fifteen minutes, I can concentrate. Then I just improvise on the piano, and sometimes I tape it, so I can hear the playback, and then I start practicing some piece that I have to play for the next show.

And the rest of the day?

After lunch, I do some mechanical practice. I use the thesaurus of scales, like Coltrane. I use that to get some ideas and also work on my fingering. I also do some mechanical scale practice, which is a little different from classical players. For example, if it’s F major scale, usually classical people don't use their thumb for black notes, but I think you can do anything. The thumb is very short, but least you should practice using it, because during the improvisation, I don't know what's going to happen.

That routine has certainly paid off. Thanks for talking with Jazz in Japan.

•, InterviewsAugust 14, 2019